Comments on: An Analogy Falls Flat http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/ The sometimes updated blog of Brendon. Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:39:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Jim L http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1689 Jim L Thu, 18 May 2006 20:00:57 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1689 If a father knows absolutely which option his child will choose, isn't that by definition a greater temptation than the child can bear? In the example, the father has engineered the situation to elicit a particular response from the child. If we accept that the father is successful in this (which is necessary to ascribe to the father an omniscience not bound by time), then the child has truly been deprived of free choice. If it is even remotely possible that the child might choose the broccoli (a possibility that most listeners accept despite the requirement of the example that it is not available), then the father's knowledge is bound by time. He may understand why the child chose what he chose, but he didn't know absolutely what that choice was before it was made. If a father knows absolutely which option his child will choose, isn’t that by definition a greater temptation than the child can bear? In the example, the father has engineered the situation to elicit a particular response from the child. If we accept that the father is successful in this (which is necessary to ascribe to the father an omniscience not bound by time), then the child has truly been deprived of free choice. If it is even remotely possible that the child might choose the broccoli (a possibility that most listeners accept despite the requirement of the example that it is not available), then the father’s knowledge is bound by time. He may understand why the child chose what he chose, but he didn’t know absolutely what that choice was before it was made.

]]> By: Paul http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1688 Paul Thu, 04 May 2006 06:19:44 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1688 I was at that service too and I don't think that Mike was actually drawing an analogy that set a good/healthy/righteous option vs bad/unhealthy/sinful option. I think he was more talking about God fully understanding what a given person would do in any given situation. Now, in the case of a young boy presented with a simple dietary choice, his father "knows" that the child WILL choose the icecream. Mike went on to talk about one way to veiw God's foreknowledge and predestination that's called "middle knowledge" and that's what the analogy was referring to. However, if the analogy was meant in the way you heard it, I tend to agree with you and the responsibility of the father. But, for what it's worth, God as father tells us we will never be tempted beyond what we can bear. It seems like your reading of the analogy has the father being held responsible for basically tempting his child with the more fun but worse for him option of ice cream. The father should rather put options in front of the son that he knows that his son can bear. Does that make sense? Anyway, I hope that you haven't been too turned off by a random guy posting on your blog. Thanks for the thoughtful reflection and response to the message. The Church Universal needs more people like you! I was at that service too and I don’t think that Mike was actually drawing an analogy that set a good/healthy/righteous option vs bad/unhealthy/sinful option. I think he was more talking about God fully understanding what a given person would do in any given situation. Now, in the case of a young boy presented with a simple dietary choice, his father “knows” that the child WILL choose the icecream. Mike went on to talk about one way to veiw God’s foreknowledge and predestination that’s called “middle knowledge” and that’s what the analogy was referring to.

However, if the analogy was meant in the way you heard it, I tend to agree with you and the responsibility of the father. But, for what it’s worth, God as father tells us we will never be tempted beyond what we can bear. It seems like your reading of the analogy has the father being held responsible for basically tempting his child with the more fun but worse for him option of ice cream. The father should rather put options in front of the son that he knows that his son can bear. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I hope that you haven’t been too turned off by a random guy posting on your blog. Thanks for the thoughtful reflection and response to the message. The Church Universal needs more people like you!

]]> By: cate http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1686 cate Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:59:24 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1686 thanks for the peek inside your head! thanks for the peek inside your head!

]]> By: Crista http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1685 Crista Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:35:32 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1685 I think also, that a child only chooses what they eat after a certain age. If you ask Mike, I'm sure he does not allow his child that option at his young age. It is not until we have some knowledge of what is good for us that we are given the choice by our parents. I think also, that a child only chooses what they eat after a certain age. If you ask Mike, I’m sure he does not allow his child that option at his young age. It is not until we have some knowledge of what is good for us that we are given the choice by our parents.

]]> By: Brendon http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1684 Brendon Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:13:30 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1684 Ya, I've seen ice cream and rocks, which seems to make it a bit different. Ya, I’ve seen ice cream and rocks, which seems to make it a bit different.

]]> By: melanie http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1683 melanie Fri, 28 Apr 2006 03:34:36 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1683 I thought the analogy would have better if the options weren't at war with one another... like broccoli and brussel sprout or icecream and candy bars... knowing what one will pick is the point, not the choosing between "good" and "bad" (In my opinion.) I thought the analogy would have better if the options weren’t at war with one another… like broccoli and brussel sprout or icecream and candy bars… knowing what one will pick is the point, not the choosing between “good” and “bad” (In my opinion.)

]]> By: Brendon http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1681 Brendon Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:11:07 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1681 I agree, analogies usually crumble when expanded. But this one, I just didn't like because from the get go I was thinking, "Um, that's bad parenting!" I agree, analogies usually crumble when expanded. But this one, I just didn’t like because from the get go I was thinking, “Um, that’s bad parenting!”

]]> By: Danny http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1680 Danny Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:08:44 +0000 http://www.techfreak.net/wp/archives/2006/04/27/310/#comment-1680 On the one hand, all analogies break down at some point. On the other hand, that one is exceptionally weak. On the one hand, all analogies break down at some point. On the other hand, that one is exceptionally weak.

]]>